“Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi” has been my reflection companion for over two decades. It contains conversations with Ramana Maharshi (RM) (1879-1950), a spiritual teacher known for his emphasis on self-inquiry. The conversations in this book took place between 1935 and 1939 in RM’s ashram in Tiruvannamalai in South India and were recorded by one of the then residents of the ashram, Munagala Venkataramiah.
In one of the conversations with a visitor in 1937 (Talk
380), RM said, “All sciences end in the Self”.
What did RM mean by this? Science continues to unravel so many mysteries
including the mystery surrounding the concept of self. Isn’t it an important
path towards understanding reality and one’s own nature? Did RM underestimate
the power of science? This is an attempt to explore these questions.
Let’s begin with an excerpt from Talk 380 where this
quote appears. The visitor had come from Europe and most likely there would
have been a translator.
V: I want confirmation of the Self.
RM: You seek the confirmation from others. Each one though addressed as ‘you’, styles himself ‘I’. The confirmation is only from ‘I’. There is no ‘you’ at all. All are comprised in ‘I’. The other can be known only when the Self is posited. The others do not exist without the subject.
V: Again, this is nothing new. When I was with Sir C. V. Raman he told me that the theory of smell could be explained from his theory of light. Smell need no longer be explained in terms of chemistry. Now, there is something new; it is progress. That is what I mean, when I say that there is nothing new in all the statements I hear now.
RM: ‘I’ is never new. It is eternally the same.
V: Do you mean to say that there is no progress?
RM: Progress is perceived by the outgoing mind. Everything is still when the mind is introverted and the Self is sought.
V: The Sciences - what becomes of them?
RM: They all end in the Self. The Self is their finality
Let’s note that “the Self” is a translation of the Sanskrit
word Swarupa which could also be translated as “one’s nature” or
essence.
How ignorant was RM about sciences? In the same book where
the above-mentioned conversation happens, there are a couple of places where RM
refers to science. “Even the material sciences trace the origin of the universe
to some one primordial matter - subtle, exceedingly subtle.” (Talk 199) And,
another one, “There is no difference between matter and spirit. Modern science
admits that all matter is energy.” (Talk 268) This implies that RM had probably
heard of the implications of the special theory of relativity and the brand-new
branch of quantum mechanics. Looks like he was not totally ignorant.
Then where does this confidence of “All sciences end in the
Self” come from? Let’s look at one more elaboration of RM on this topic (Talk
388):
“There are no objects without the subject, i.e., the objects do not come and tell you that they are, but it is you who says that there are the objects. The objects are therefore what the seer makes of them. They have no existence independent of the subject. Find out what you are and then you understand what the world is.”
Empirical evidence is an important aspect of the scientific
method. Scientific theories predict future observations for a given context. This
implies the separation of observer and observed. Is observer independent of
observed? What if the observer is the observed? It could be like one hand observing the
other hand – having some relative independence but ultimately part of one
whole. Perhaps what RM is trying to say is that science has relevance when the subject considers itself to be independent of the object and loses its
relevance when the sense of separateness vanishes.
And even if a branch of science (e.g. quantum mechanics,
statistical mechanics, neuroscience) is telling that observer and observed are
not independent, RM feels that having the mere knowledge is not the same as
internalizing that knowledge. A scientist may champion a monistic theory and
yet feel frustrated or get depressed because fellow scientists are not paying
attention to his theory. RM brings it out in the following Q&A from Talk
27.
Q: Is the study of science, psychology, physiology, philosophy, etc. helpful for (1) this art of yoga-liberation. (2) the intuitive grasp of the unity of the Real?
RM: Very little. Some knowledge is needed for yoga and it may be found in books. But practical application is the thing needed, and personal example, personal touch and personal instructions are the most helpful aids. As for the other, a person may laboriously convince himself of the truth to be intuited, i.e., its function and nature, but the actual intuition is akin to feeling and requires practice and personal contact. Mere book learning is not of any great use. After realisation all intellectual loads are useless burdens and are thrown overboard as jetsam. Jettisoning the ego is necessary and natural.
This is like the difference between cycling and cycology.
One may know the theory behind how a cycle works and how a cyclist balances his
weight and yet may not know cycling. Cycling is a full-body knowledge also
called embodied
cognition and it is mostly implicit. Similarly, knowing that the self is not
independent of and intimately connected with the outside world is not enough. It
needs to be embodied and internalized to be effective.
One implication of what RM is saying is that reading this
blog itself is of very little use. Turning attention inwards, watching the
movement of thought, and exploring the origin of I-thought is more important. RM
says, “Change your outlook. Look within. Find the Self. Who is the substratum
of the subject and the object? Find it and all problems are solved.” (Talk 331)
Related blog:
Ramana
Maharshi’s self-inquiry through Upadesa Saram verses, Dec 2021.
Good Article!
ReplyDeleteWell explained in this article by collating.
ReplyDeletedon't call ramana maharshi ignorant and don't try to to judge ramana maharshi with your limited knowledge. These sciences are nothing, we have to call them all as relative knowledge. he is above and beyond and he is realized soul !!! one billion Einsteins can not even imagine or touch the experience of ramana maharshi.
ReplyDeleteGood article. Please read Dnyaneshwar's Amrutanubhav and this will clarify the "subject - object" phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteGood article. Please read Dnyaneshwar's Amrutanubhav and this will clarify the "subject - object" phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteA better word for Self is ATMAN (rather than Swarupa)
If you study the VEDAS the fundamental nature of Reality is BRAHMAN, or ATMAN or Pure Consciousness. The entire phenomenal world is manifested IN BRAHMAN (or ATMAN -- the Supreme SUBJECT). Science primarily uses the Objective approach for modelling and analysis. However as Science progresses to delve deeper into understanding Reality it will have to finally settle into BRAHMAN as the ultimate CAUSE (of all Causes).
This is what Bhagwan RM meant by "All Science end in the Self". I hold him in AWE with his level of Clarity, teachings and actions !
You will also find this Clarity in Sant Dnyaneshwar's Amrutanubhava.
Hope this helps. Best Wishes !
Sandip Kamat-Timble BTech IIT-Bombay, etc.
sandipkt@gmail.com
Vinay: I should have added that if you are able to understand Amrutanubhava (available online for free) then you will 100% agree with Ramana Maharishi. Basically the fundamental reality is BRAHMAN (or ATMAN) where all differentiations (object - subject) melt away and here the "objective" Science will see its finality ("end") into the Supreme SUBJECT (ATMAN).
ReplyDeleteHope this helps !
Sandip Kamat-Timble
sandipkt@gmail.com
The writer of this article must be a fool who is using the word "ignorant" etc about Ramana Mahariahi. Ramana Maharishi is the Self-Illuminied Person and nothing in this world is unknown to use. He has known God. Therefore His every word is of the God. And in the case of your science,it is associated just to the mere illusion. Haven't you studied the quantum physics which says that everything is the combination of atoms which creates the illusion of this world and I will teach you my Vedas which declares that the world is just a matter of illusion. And in the Self or Atman there is no illusion. As Ramana Mahariahi says in the Self the science finally ends. Therefore mathematics also ends in the Self. Your intellect out of which you cannot see but Ramana Mahariahi has seen. You called Ramana Mahariahi "ignorant" but hey stupid, ruskle and a fool you are a ignorant person whose mind dwells in the illusion. It is a matter of laugh also that science discusses that which doesn't exist but only us sensed by the mind. Make yourself corrected neither you have to pay a lot.
ReplyDelete